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rainsometimesThe other day I put down some rambling meta thoughts on Twitter considering some aspects of One Piece's and Gintama's narratives/themes. I was going to just drop a link here but I've heard that Twitter has made it tougher for people to view content there if you don't have a Twitter account. So I'm reposting instead. It won't be terribly tidied up, though.
Comments would be extremely welcome.
I was recalling the end of the short story where Kagura gets a new umbrella. As seen in the icon here. It's one of my favourite Gintama moments, and I'm not the only one. It feels very successfully heartfelt and also successfully iconic. ♥
It made me think of another famous, iconic moment about friendship that makes your heart swell: the one at the end of the Alabasta arc in One Piece, with the Strawhats silently acknowledging their bond with Vivi as they take their leave, in a gesture you need to have read the whole arc to understand and feel the weight of. That moment I also love and have done since I first read it in the manga.
It probably says a lot about One Piece and Gintama in that one is the triumphant touching conclusion after an epic arc of adventure, and the other is the end of a single manga chapter and half of an anime episode in which nothing much happens, set in everyday life.
Gintama's own dramatic epic arcs are great, but I think they're infused by the longing in the characters themselves to get back to the comfort of the people they are in these everyday domestic moments.
By comparison, perhaps one could say that the struggle and battles in One Piece are infused by the longing in the characters to be able to achieve their heartfelt dreams side by side with the people they love? Together with the attachment they feel for the characters they help and are fighting for, which is also true for Gintama.
One Piece at its best, when it's not too marred by sexism and a few other things that can bother me, really does feel like the most quintessential adventure story in comics form to me, I would say. I'm not saying the best. But quintessential. I used to think the way it uses the "journey" structure is a very good way to make a long action-oriented series, and something maybe more shonen series and similar canons should take after, but on reflecting further I think that's not quite it...
Oda has been very skillful about showing the dreams of every Strawhat, making them heartfelt and emotionally significant. And also making them difficult and world-spanning in a way, so that it makes sense for them to sail with Luffy.
In that way their ambition also makes them stars or potential stars of their own, one could say. Nami wants to make a map of the world, Sanji wants to find All Blue, Robin to find out about the Void Century, Zoro to become the strongest swordsman and so on... Usopp's dream might seem like an exception, but while it's more humble, it too is a goal that requires an adventurous lifestyle. So for him as with the rest, he needs an adventurous, freespirited captain + crew that he likes and wants to sail with and fight alongside.
(It's a core part of the crew's dynamics that the members don't choose to join the crew for pragmatic reasons, like "well Luffy is hella strong so he's the one best suited for me to further my goals". They join because they come to deeply trust and like Luffy & the rest.)
The point is that the individual dreams and goals of the crew members all harmonize with the essential premise of the story as a journey, one with an ever-changing setting.
So that's One Piece. Gintama on the other hand is one of my favourite examples of a series that's the flipside of the "out on a journey" set-up/structure. Here the main characters are connected to a specific place and that's part of the whole strength and core of the series. Of course, "protection of home/home town" is a common motivation for many shonen heroes and might figure heavily in the plot of many a series, but I think the difference is that the strength of everyday life in all its absurdities, warts and all [hah], feels that much more heartfelt and genuine in Gintama.
Compared to One Piece, the Odd Jobs Trio all have much more mundane dreams and wishes. Gintoki wants to live a mostly-peaceful life where he's able to stand up for his ideas, to protect people he's close to, to be his own man (he does value freedom a lot), maybe go wild now and then. He wants to stay true to the soul of his teacher as well as stay true to his current identity that he's forged from the city around him and its needs; he wants Shoka Sonjuku student Gintoki Sakata and Gin-san from Odd Jobs Ginchan to not be in conflict.
Kagura just wants to have a family that's not broken. And she wants to be a different kind of Yato, one that's not ruled by thirst for battle, who values kindness. She became "the Kagura who was born on Earth" and that's who she wants to hold onto. She wants both her families to live and thrive. That's all.
Shinpachi's dream is ostensibly to revive his father's dojo, but I feel that in truth that's more of a symbol of his underlying dream to stay true to the ideals of being a samurai that he learned from his father as well as to find out for himself what it even means to be one.
[Spoiler for the timeskip](I mean he doesn't seem all that upset when Otae turns the dojo into a scam fitness club during the timeskip and Shinpachi is running Odd Jobs on his own instead.)
In any case, their dreams and desires are no more heartfelt than the ones of the Strawhats in One Piece, they just happen to be more humble. And so the structure and themes of Gintama, with a stable "home base" make sense for the main cast's personality. Just as in One Piece, the structure and the hearts of the main characters' personalities are in harmony.
I think this is a large part of what makes both those shonen canons so narratively successful.
And I think there are in contrast many canons where it seems like the structure/set-up and the characters' personalities are less in tune with each other, and while I'm not saying that has to be a huge flaw, it does maybe make less of an impression in terms of truly satisfying narratives.
There are many works that are good at making lovable characters who fight for a goal you agree with, and so you cheer for them and worry for them - I'm not knocking that at all. But there might not be the same kind of "this just feels to "RIGHT" sense about moments in the story that could have been there.
I don't know! The point was less to be picky about a number of other series, more just to celebrate certain aspects of these two series that work so well for me.
When you read One Piece, you really want the Strawhats to overcome the struggles of each arc so they can sail on together, unhindered by the obstacles of oppression.
When you read the serious arcs of Gintama, you really want the Odd Jobs Trio to win through so they can return to a peaceful, ridiculous life in Kabuki-Cho. And as the Odd Jobs trio fight for Kabuki-cho and for Edo, we know they're fighting for the place where they can make dick jokes and throw up and argue about stupid stuff and hunt golden beetles and do radio exercises and go buy some nice umbrellas.
And it comes through.
* [Timeskip spoilers for One Piece]
Leading up to or during the timeskip, some members of the crew make the decision to prioritize their loyalty to Luffy beyond certain aspects of their dreams - Zoro swallows his pride in order to get taught swordfighting by the very master he wishes to eventually defeat, Brook postpones travelling to be reunited with Laboon to a later time - but even in that case they are still guided and motivated by their dreams even if they can put their loyalties above them.
Comments would be extremely welcome.
I was recalling the end of the short story where Kagura gets a new umbrella. As seen in the icon here. It's one of my favourite Gintama moments, and I'm not the only one. It feels very successfully heartfelt and also successfully iconic. ♥
It made me think of another famous, iconic moment about friendship that makes your heart swell: the one at the end of the Alabasta arc in One Piece, with the Strawhats silently acknowledging their bond with Vivi as they take their leave, in a gesture you need to have read the whole arc to understand and feel the weight of. That moment I also love and have done since I first read it in the manga.
It probably says a lot about One Piece and Gintama in that one is the triumphant touching conclusion after an epic arc of adventure, and the other is the end of a single manga chapter and half of an anime episode in which nothing much happens, set in everyday life.
Gintama's own dramatic epic arcs are great, but I think they're infused by the longing in the characters themselves to get back to the comfort of the people they are in these everyday domestic moments.
By comparison, perhaps one could say that the struggle and battles in One Piece are infused by the longing in the characters to be able to achieve their heartfelt dreams side by side with the people they love? Together with the attachment they feel for the characters they help and are fighting for, which is also true for Gintama.
One Piece at its best, when it's not too marred by sexism and a few other things that can bother me, really does feel like the most quintessential adventure story in comics form to me, I would say. I'm not saying the best. But quintessential. I used to think the way it uses the "journey" structure is a very good way to make a long action-oriented series, and something maybe more shonen series and similar canons should take after, but on reflecting further I think that's not quite it...
Oda has been very skillful about showing the dreams of every Strawhat, making them heartfelt and emotionally significant. And also making them difficult and world-spanning in a way, so that it makes sense for them to sail with Luffy.
In that way their ambition also makes them stars or potential stars of their own, one could say. Nami wants to make a map of the world, Sanji wants to find All Blue, Robin to find out about the Void Century, Zoro to become the strongest swordsman and so on... Usopp's dream might seem like an exception, but while it's more humble, it too is a goal that requires an adventurous lifestyle. So for him as with the rest, he needs an adventurous, freespirited captain + crew that he likes and wants to sail with and fight alongside.
(It's a core part of the crew's dynamics that the members don't choose to join the crew for pragmatic reasons, like "well Luffy is hella strong so he's the one best suited for me to further my goals". They join because they come to deeply trust and like Luffy & the rest.)
The point is that the individual dreams and goals of the crew members all harmonize with the essential premise of the story as a journey, one with an ever-changing setting.
So that's One Piece. Gintama on the other hand is one of my favourite examples of a series that's the flipside of the "out on a journey" set-up/structure. Here the main characters are connected to a specific place and that's part of the whole strength and core of the series. Of course, "protection of home/home town" is a common motivation for many shonen heroes and might figure heavily in the plot of many a series, but I think the difference is that the strength of everyday life in all its absurdities, warts and all [hah], feels that much more heartfelt and genuine in Gintama.
Compared to One Piece, the Odd Jobs Trio all have much more mundane dreams and wishes. Gintoki wants to live a mostly-peaceful life where he's able to stand up for his ideas, to protect people he's close to, to be his own man (he does value freedom a lot), maybe go wild now and then. He wants to stay true to the soul of his teacher as well as stay true to his current identity that he's forged from the city around him and its needs; he wants Shoka Sonjuku student Gintoki Sakata and Gin-san from Odd Jobs Ginchan to not be in conflict.
Kagura just wants to have a family that's not broken. And she wants to be a different kind of Yato, one that's not ruled by thirst for battle, who values kindness. She became "the Kagura who was born on Earth" and that's who she wants to hold onto. She wants both her families to live and thrive. That's all.
Shinpachi's dream is ostensibly to revive his father's dojo, but I feel that in truth that's more of a symbol of his underlying dream to stay true to the ideals of being a samurai that he learned from his father as well as to find out for himself what it even means to be one.
[Spoiler for the timeskip]
In any case, their dreams and desires are no more heartfelt than the ones of the Strawhats in One Piece, they just happen to be more humble. And so the structure and themes of Gintama, with a stable "home base" make sense for the main cast's personality. Just as in One Piece, the structure and the hearts of the main characters' personalities are in harmony.
I think this is a large part of what makes both those shonen canons so narratively successful.
And I think there are in contrast many canons where it seems like the structure/set-up and the characters' personalities are less in tune with each other, and while I'm not saying that has to be a huge flaw, it does maybe make less of an impression in terms of truly satisfying narratives.
There are many works that are good at making lovable characters who fight for a goal you agree with, and so you cheer for them and worry for them - I'm not knocking that at all. But there might not be the same kind of "this just feels to "RIGHT" sense about moments in the story that could have been there.
I don't know! The point was less to be picky about a number of other series, more just to celebrate certain aspects of these two series that work so well for me.
When you read One Piece, you really want the Strawhats to overcome the struggles of each arc so they can sail on together, unhindered by the obstacles of oppression.
When you read the serious arcs of Gintama, you really want the Odd Jobs Trio to win through so they can return to a peaceful, ridiculous life in Kabuki-Cho. And as the Odd Jobs trio fight for Kabuki-cho and for Edo, we know they're fighting for the place where they can make dick jokes and throw up and argue about stupid stuff and hunt golden beetles and do radio exercises and go buy some nice umbrellas.
And it comes through.
* [Timeskip spoilers for One Piece]
Leading up to or during the timeskip, some members of the crew make the decision to prioritize their loyalty to Luffy beyond certain aspects of their dreams - Zoro swallows his pride in order to get taught swordfighting by the very master he wishes to eventually defeat, Brook postpones travelling to be reunited with Laboon to a later time - but even in that case they are still guided and motivated by their dreams even if they can put their loyalties above them.